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Thread: How to decide what smps I need for project hybrid amp.

  1. #1
    kees57
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    How to decide what smps I need for project hybrid amp.

    Hi all


    In have tryed to sim some kinds of smps, forward, hald bridge.

    However I think models UC3845 for example are not so well.


    I need 15 volts 10 amps, 300 volts 100mA, 2 x 120 volts 250mA, 2 x 65 volts 15 amps.

    Some people say make two smps, one for power 2 x 65 volts and one for the other voltages.

    I did try the last, thus alone the tube voltages, however getting feedback working and such in ltspice did not work nice, I had a UB3875 who
    did better.

    And I think halfbridge is some to big for the voltages without the big 65 v x 2 15 amps one.

    Helps is welcome also a transformer calculator I did have ExcellentIR dut is russian, and calculation did voltages get out of range.

    smps-sim.zip

    regardsDSCN3767.JPG

  2. #2
    .... Silvio's Avatar
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    You will need to divide them in 2 smps. well 2x65vx15A that is nearly 2000W and 15v x10A that is 150w. These you will wind on one transformer. The typology for this will be either half or full bridge. I do not know the duty cycle you need for this I do not know either if this output need to be regulated. it all depend on the type of amplifier used.

    The other high voltages will be wound on another trafo. The high voltage is not so simple to make and regulate. You can still use the same bulk capacitors for both smps if they are fitted on the same PCB. You need to screen the smps from noise as if the high voltage is used for the preamp stage then you have to be careful from noise entering the preamp stage.

    The ICs you mentioned are a resonant control chip and the other is a current mode flyback controller. Have you ever worked with these chips before?
    Last edited by Silvio; 09-25-2019 at 09:22 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kees54 View Post
    Hi all


    In have tryed to sim some kinds of smps, forward, hald bridge.

    However I think models UC3845 for example are not so well.


    I need 15 volts 10 amps, 300 volts 100mA, 2 x 120 volts 250mA, 2 x 65 volts 15 amps.

    Some people say make two smps, one for power 2 x 65 volts and one for the other voltages.

    I did try the last, thus alone the tube voltages, however getting feedback working and such in ltspice did not work nice, I had a UB3875 who
    did better.

    And I think halfbridge is some to big for the voltages without the big 65 v x 2 15 amps one.

    Helps is welcome also a transformer calculator I did have ExcellentIR dut is russian, and calculation did voltages get out of range.

    smps-sim.zip

    regardsDSCN3767.JPG


    The most direct question comes to mind is going regulated or unregulated SMPS, Then you will figure out witch topology is needed.

    However, a SMPS with those many outputs is not going to be simple project.

    Hope that helps
    www.diysmps.com & www.Micro-Audio.com

  4. #4
    kees57
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    Hi All


    I like difficult projects, I did make also a quite low distortion class D in past a three level.

    Oke I have need the 2 x 65 volts for the mosfet power stage and the 2 x 120 volts, 1 x 300 volts, and 15 volts 10 a 15 amp for the tube drive part, the 15 volts 10 a 15 amps is
    filament voltage, I go do regulate these and the high voltages can be without regulation, because that will work fine.

    I think using a UC3845 is not the best way, difficult to use with that current feedback stuff, special with more voltages, I can use better a fase shift or somethng like that, for the 65 volts + 65 volts
    a LLC resonant version is maybe a solution.

    is for the high voltages also the need for half bridge or can I use a flyback?.

    thanks for advice.

    PS class D multilevel, project for later in time, because of climate issues need for efficienty...

    ScreenHunter_2027 Feb. 08 22.17.jpg

    prepostfeedback.jpg
    Last edited by kees54; 09-26-2019 at 10:55 AM. Reason: pics

  5. #5
    kees57
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    Hi All


    I like difficult projects, I did make also a quite low distortion class D in past a three level.

    Oke I have need the 2 x 65 volts for the mosfet power stage and the 2 x 120 volts, 1 x 300 volts, and 15 volts 10 a 15 amp for the tube drive part, the 15 volts 10 a 15 amps is
    filament voltage, I go do regulate these and the high voltages can be without regulation, because that will work fine.

    I think using a UC3845 is not the best way, difficult to use with that current feedback stuff, special with more voltages, I can use better a fase shift or somethng like that, for the 65 volts + 65 volts
    a LLC resonant version is maybe a solution.

    is for the high voltages also the need for half bridge or can I use a flyback?.

    thanks for advice.

    PS here class D but that are very much later projects, now I have not enough time for.

    ScreenHunter_2027 Feb. 08 22.17.jpg

    prepostfeedback.jpg

  6. #6
    kees57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio View Post
    You will need to divide them in 2 smps. well 2x65vx15A that is nearly 2000W and 15v x10A that is 150w. These you will wind on one transformer. The typology for this will be either half or full bridge. I do not know the duty cycle you need for this I do not know either if this output need to be regulated. it all depend on the type of amplifier used.

    The other high voltages will be wound on another trafo. The high voltage is not so simple to make and regulate. You can still use the same bulk capacitors for both smps if they are fitted on the same PCB. You need to screen the smps from noise as if the high voltage is used for the preamp stage then you have to be careful from noise entering the preamp stage.

    The ICs you mentioned are a resonant control chip and the other is a current mode flyback controller. Have you ever worked with these chips before?
    SMPS is quite new for me, but have the equipment to start, can do that with low voltages om mosfet at first to see and to get familiair with it, there are quite a lot possibillityes out there and new stuff posted.

  7. #7
    kees57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio View Post
    You will need to divide them in 2 smps. well 2x65vx15A that is nearly 2000W and 15v x10A that is 150w. These you will wind on one transformer. The typology for this will be either half or full bridge. I do not know the duty cycle you need for this I do not know either if this output need to be regulated. it all depend on the type of amplifier used.

    The other high voltages will be wound on another trafo. The high voltage is not so simple to make and regulate. You can still use the same bulk capacitors for both smps if they are fitted on the same PCB. You need to screen the smps from noise as if the high voltage is used for the preamp stage then you have to be careful from noise entering the preamp stage.

    The ICs you mentioned are a resonant control chip and the other is a current mode flyback controller. Have you ever worked with these chips before?
    SMPS is quite new for me, but have the equipment to start, can do that with low voltages om mosfet at first to see and to get familiair with it, there are quite a lot possibillityes out there and new stuff posted.

  8. #8
    kees57
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    For the people behind this forum, I get errors when posting and a massage the site is not secure from google chrome, it is also very very slow and get message also that when I post I leave the site, but posting do work normally.

    regards

  9. #9
    .... Silvio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kees54 View Post
    SMPS is quite new for me, but have the equipment to start, can do that with low voltages om mosfet at first to see and to get familiair with it, there are quite a lot possibillityes out there and new stuff posted.
    Well I think an LLC 2Kw half or full bridge smps is good for the output stage I dont know if you want it regulated or not. I never find them regulated in pro amplifiers. If this amplifier is going to run at full blast for a long time then I suggest you opt for a good heatsink and also adequate cooling on the smps.

    The other smps I think a flyback arrangement will be more appropriate supplying the heaters and plate voltages.

    Will this all fit in a U2 standard amplifier box?

  10. #10
    kees57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio View Post
    Well I think an LLC 2Kw half or full bridge smps is good for the output stage I dont know if you want it regulated or not. I never find them regulated in pro amplifiers. If this amplifier is going to run at full blast for a long time then I suggest you opt for a good heatsink and also adequate cooling on the smps.

    The other smps I think a flyback arrangement will be more appropriate supplying the heaters and plate voltages.

    Will this all fit in a U2 standard amplifier box?
    What is a U2 amplifer case? or box?

    I have this idea, see the pic.

    Hybrid-housing.jpg

    Here I did try to sim a resonant version, I did see that with a resonant the supply even without regulation is very stable, I do not professional high power audio but high end stuff.

    The pic is one without and one with feedback compensation PI network calculation.

    -+65 v resonance feedback simulation.jpg

    -+65 v resonance feedback corrected.jpg

    Now I try the forward (flyback?) zvc converter, this is a good one for the tube voltages.

    Used for the new class D interesse from me is because of climate and efficienty, but it needs to soun well, I did have a version also alone prepost feedback and these sound very open, for me better the
    all feedback ones, but first the circlotron hybrid has to be done, with autobias. who already work now, need thus supply, smps is very small and nice.

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