Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: IR2161 smps

  1. #11
    .... Silvio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    864
    Blog Entries
    9
    Hi Scormonel, I think your winding wire is a bit thick for the frequency being used. The diameter for the copper wire according to my chart is as follows:-
    1mm up to 17Khz, 0.91 mm up to 21Khz, 0.8 mm up to 27Khz, 0.7 mm up to 33khz, and 0,65mm up to 42Khz. As you can see with the frequencies I see on your pics your wire is a bit thick and skin dept is not using all the copper in your winding.

    If your smps is used for audio then 6 amps per mm^2 can be calculated for the copper winding.
    The smps has no feedback for voltage regulation but does it by lowering the frequency and inducing more magnetic field in the core due to the higher B when the frequency lowers, this is rather a crude way but seems to work. Consider also that the chip is designed for driving halogen lamps of 12 or 24v. Taking some percentages we can see that when using only say 12 and subtracting 10% we get around 11v at 8 amps load (96 watts). It does not seem much. Bringing up the voltage to 80 and subtracting 10% from it brings a voltage of 72 volts for the same current draw 8A,(572 watts) I do not think that your result is that bad. I also think that if you use thinner copper wire and a cross sectional area according to 6A/mm^2 the performance may improve due to having lower losses in the copper and AC resistance.

    On what operating frequency you made your winding turns calculation? What is your target output power for this smps?
    One last comment Music does not consume continuous load and only takes more or less from 30 to 60% This will give time for the output caps to reach their full voltage again, Why not try it out on the amp and see what happens?

    Regards, Silvio

  2. #12
    diysmps Member scormonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Craiova
    Posts
    9
    Hello Silvio
    All the calculations we made for 34Khz, frequency given by the integrated circuit manufacturer in pdf. I used two copper wires of 1mm in parallel and in the secondary three copper wires of 1mm in parallel. I coiled the six-wire copper thread 1mm at a time. The power I hope to get is 1500W. I know from previous experiences that an audio amplifier is a much more relaxed task than a resilient task. But with large diameters on the copper wire, I think the losses will be offset. I intend to set it up and then make several pieces because I found IR2161 at stock liquidation and convenient price at TME and I took 40 pieces. In this integrated circuit I do not have access to the oscillator and neither PWM has it, so it is excluded that I can make a feedback to stabilize the output voltages. But I was attracted by the output capability of managing + - 500mA. This is a prototype. Up to the final version and PCB is a lot. I'm trying to see what I can get.
    Good health !

  3. #13
    .... Silvio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    864
    Blog Entries
    9
    Hello Scormonel, I made an SMPS using ETD49 N87 core driven by SG3525 and IR2110. The switchers used where 2X IRFP460. I tried 2 different windings one with litz wire and the other with 0.5mm copper wire. The switching frequency was 60Khz and the peak power absorbed was around 1200 watts after that I was experienced severe voltage drop. The current density of the wire was calculated at 6A/mm^2 in both versions.

    I am saying this because I doubt it if you can get 1500W from the core at 30Khz and I guess you have to use a bigger core.

    Well what I can see from your wire thickness you are a bit under rated in the secondary winding CSA (1mm)of wire X 3 = 0.785mm^2 X 6A/mm^2= 4.71 amp per wire so now is multiplied by 3 wires we get 4.71 A X 3 = 14A. Power = 14A X 80v = 1120 watts. In the primary you are just under 1500 watts with the same calculation using 155v X 9.42A.

    I am also posting another PDF related to the chip maybe you can add some other features like feedback etc

    Regards Silvio

    an-1069.pdf

  4. #14
    diysmps Member scormonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Craiova
    Posts
    9
    Hello
    If you used SG3525 and IR2110, I do not understand why you will not go to 300-400kHz. Who prevented you? With IR2153 at 75kHz, a transformer from an ATX source with the original 36-pole coil and wire as it was I did not know, I pulled 1000W with 2 H15NB50FI MOSFETs of 15A, 500V and 0.36 ohms. But all the source in the original PC case and ventilated with the original cooler. But let me come back. On samples we have used a cooler that blows all over the source. Without it, the radiator heats up hard, reaching 81 degrees, especially in the secondary diode area. I'm convinced I can get a lot more power. Remains to be seen. I must somehow resolve with the load resistance to pull a serious stream from the source. In the evidence we loaded with the consumer only the positive tension, the negative one remaining unused, situation that can be seen on the oscillogram, on the negative alternate there is a peak. And here they use the same H15NB50FI transistors manufactured by ST that we found very cheap at a stock clearance and took 200 pieces.
    Regards.
    Ionel

  5. #15
    .... Silvio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    864
    Blog Entries
    9
    Hi Ionel, I could have rise up the frequency more but what about switching losses and core losses? My smps could hold a 900 watt load all day as I fitted a cpu heat sink to the diodes and the switchers. The draft from the cpu heat sink also cools the trafo and output inductors. My tests where carried out on the full winding and I was a bit aware of setting the short circuit protection higher as I was not so confident at that time. Now its adjusted to trip at around 1500 watts (11A) If you want to take a look you can find it on this website.
    There is also a video of the load test found here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18l-plvqkdU
    The tread for this build is here. http://www.diysmps.com/forums/showth...smps-based-on- &highlight=1000w+smps.
    The full detail pdf file is found on post #12

    Loading your smps you could use heating elements and halogen lamps like I did. Even a heater from an old kettle or water heater.

    About the ATX trafo its rather amazing pulling 1000 watts out of an EI33 core. Just one question how long could it withstand it? What was your voltage drop at this load?
    My last question is do you intend to mass produce it? I asked the last question because you bought a lot of transistors etc.

    Regards Silvio

  6. #16
    diysmps Member scormonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Craiova
    Posts
    9
    Hello Silvio
    I studied your project with SG3525 and I am impressed. Congratulations! I really liked the idea with the overcurrent protection comparator. I have some attempts with SG3525 but I will not use the IR2110 driver which is expensive. When you play with them, you sometimes ruin them and do not want to burn in my pocket, I use what is cheaper. I tried with a transformer but the result is not thankful. The waveform does not look too good. I probably do not have enough inductance, I will try with a bigger transformer. As for the ATX transformer source, I mounted it in a 2X400W class D amplifier and it has been operating for over 2 years. I do not intend to produce it in the mass but I never liked it when I needed something to wait for a week to come. In my city there are very high prices for components and I buy only online and hundreds of pieces. When I start something, I like to have everything ready. For many years, they no longer use classical transformers for the amplifiers that build them. Only switching sources.

  7. #17
    .... Silvio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    864
    Blog Entries
    9
    Hello Ionel, for the purchase of the IR2110 you can find the link here and 5 of them do not cost much.

    Link https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_o...r2110&_sacat=0

    I purchased these and they worked fine.

    If you want to build the smps I guess the one from LUDO 3232 (you can find it on diysmps forum) is simpler than mine as you can find parts for it more easier. The version I built was based around what I had in the junk box. I used the same schematic of Ludo to build mine. I only included the +/- 15v , the fan output and the output inductors for mine.

    I suggest to you that you also read the blog posts on this site regarding transformer winding practices and Making litz wire at home. These blogs carry useful information and can guide you to making a safe transformer and adequately spaced pcb. I also made a video which can be found on youtube it is called winding small transformers for smps. This video is also very informative. You should be aware that if the primary of the smps trafo leaks with the secondary it will present the grid voltage at the secondary and can kill you. This is why we always have to at least capacitively couple to the earth ground the primary and secondary windings. If you take a close look at my schematics and PCB you will notice that.

    I always preach about this because there are a lot of new comers and do not realize the hazard. We here on diysmps cannot be responsible for any errors or mistakes of unskilled members. That is why I provided information.

    As far as the pulse transformer, well it has to be designed well and it also needs to have enough current to drive the mosfets.
    The IR2110 has a capability of 2Amps in its output driver and its very robust. Regarding the switching frequency well you have to be careful with the bootstrap cap so that it has time to charge up between pulses and giving adequate current. However when using a bootstrap arrangement voltage regulation of the output is somewhat limited due to the bootstrap cap not charging enough during a short pulse width. However using a pulse transformer will give better performance in this regard especially if it has its primary winding enhanced with a lure winding in the main transformer to boost up the current.

    Prevention of blowing up chips. I always try out the oscillator section alone by driving a couple of leds and check operation with an external power supply with current limit. I can check wave form, frequency, dead time etc. and see that all is well before I try to drive the fets. This will save components and not putting any holes in your pocket.

    Regards Silvio

  8. #18
    diysmps Member scormonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Craiova
    Posts
    9
    Good Silvio
    I avoid buying the semiconductors on ebay and aliexpress because I had unfortunate experiences. Fueled, they clicked first and the Farnell component was the same fitting, it worked perfectly. Even the condensers you buy online do not have the enrolled value, but they are approaching half.
    In transformers I put very good insulation and between the primary and secondary masses put a resistance of 10 megaohms to prevent electrostatic charges. I do not like to put capacitors because it's running the secondary mass. If I buy the driver, I'll give the money on the L6491 from ST that can charge and absorb 4A. When the boot strap capacitor is too small, the oscilloscope is immediately seen as the top of the waveform is tilted. That's what happens to me when the transformer does not have enough energy stored to keep the mosfet open for the entire drive. Normally I try the small signal side before attacking the MOSFETs. Waveforms are accurate to samples, but when attack ends, the waveform does not look good anymore, although a faulty feed is excluded because it uses a stabilized laboratory source for samples. When I get to a version that will please me, I will post here. I also have two movies with my attempts.
    All the best!

    https://www.4shared.com/video/ytCAvt...OFT_START.html

    https://www.4shared.com/video/52iD49pjca/gata.html

  9. #19
    diysmps Member scormonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Craiova
    Posts
    9
    The first link makes figures
    https://www.4shared.com/s/fytCAvtFGei
    Last edited by scormonel; 09-10-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  10. #20
    .... Silvio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    864
    Blog Entries
    9
    Keep up the good work. I have seen the videos and the soft start in the video in your last post seems to be functioning well

    Regards Silvio

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •